Tugger the SLUGger!SLUG Mailing List Archives

Re: [chat] Lies?



On Wed, 7 Jul 2004, Shaun Oliver wrote:

> I heard tell that David delivered up the following on Wed, Jul 07, 2004 at 12:11:33PM +1000,
> >
> *SNIP*
> >
> > More seriously.. it's funny watching Bush et al touting "God on our side"
> > and then denigrating the Muslim extremists who are clearly so devoted to
> > Allah that they are prepared to lay down their lives. What makes it even
> > funnier (in a tragic kinda way) is that that it's the SAME GOD! It makes
> > me proud to be an atheist. Reductio ad absurdum.
> >
>
> I see your point. We're over there killing although not intending to yet
> it's a necissary evil and part of war, and then we bitch about beheadings
> and the like.
> while images of beheadings are sickening in themselves
> We need to ask ourselves are we any better doing what we're doing.
> but again, look at the various images nick berg, just to name one, and
> various others that had been beheaded and the mirders publicly paraided on
> the internet for all to download and look at.
> this is what we're up against.
> would be nice if we could just go in and resolv things by way of
> negotiation and such but we've gone down that path before to no avail.
> I'm not overly happy with the situation we're in now but, what else can we
> do?


Well, for one thing we could butt out of other peoples' business. We
(western society) have this incredible conceit that we are right and
"they" are wrong!

Beheading is good terrorism. Tell the world that you are going to do it,
then wait for everyone to get stewed up about it, then go ahead and do it.
Boy, does that get everyone's attention! Meantime, there are thousands of
innocents who have been killed in the name of god/truth/justice/whatever
but that was just collatoral damage... gee, i'm sorry.

I watch the Israelis (supported to the hilt by the west) carp about the
Palestinian weapons - AK47's, grenade launchers, rocks! - being smuggled
into Palestine but for some reason don't notice the irony that the
Israelis are using Apache gunships and tanks. Hang on? Did I miss
something? Who is the terrorist? After all, Israel is occupying Palestine,
not the other way around.

Sure, it's not that simple.  But you can't expect anything to ever be
solved until somebody significant notices the absurdities. If M.Moore
manages to do a little towards that, it can't be a bad thing.

Immediately after Sept.11, Tony Blair gave a wonderful speach pointing out
all these inconsistencies and injustices. It was very moving, and quite to
the point. I listened to it all (about 45 minutes) and I was most
impressed. The media reported about 30 seconds, leaving out all the
complex parts. Blair then invaded Iraq. Huh? Somebody should have sent him
a transcript of his own speach.

Sure, Saddam was a bad man. BUT.. no WMD, no link with Osama, so why
invade? there were plenty of other bad men around. Would have done lots
more for world peace if Bush had whispered into the Israeli collective ear
that perhaps if they didn't get serious about negotiating maybe there
wouldn't be any more tanks and helicopters. As long as Israel/Palestine is
not resolved, there cannot be peace in the middle east, and it will be
a breeding ground for terrorists.

Germany and Japan were tamed by economic support (marshall plan) post WW2,
not by occupation and suppression. Germany was punished post WW1 and
then along came Hitler, basically as a result of profound recession and
inflation caused by the punitive WW1 reparations. My point is that you get
a lot further by rewarding than you do by punishing, and NO society wants
to be suppressed or conquered by another.