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Re: [avhelpers] Re: Software Freedom Day Debrief

To the advantage of everyone, I have attached here the logs of Monday
night's meeting. If anyone has more feedback to give, please feel free
to add it to http://gingertech.dyndns.org/SFD/doku.php?id=experiences

Sridhar: just some feedback on your remarks:
yes, we will need a directional mic on the backup DV camera! Thanks
for noting it.
As for your remark on the lighting in the first theatre: we have
actually tested that extensively on our visit and it was tolerable
when we switched on the light. However, Pia's issue with the noise
created many problems, amongst them:
- the loss of direct connection to the speaker mics,
- the loss of a good quality projector and its positioning to the far
end of the room
- the loss of good lighting,
- the sudden, unprepared and uncoordinated move to another theatre
over lunchtime.

So, there's anothing thing for "justblamepia.org". :)

To be true: the afternoon theatre was much better and we got some
really good quality video from it.


On 9/19/06, Andreas Fischer <electronics45@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
[sorry keep forgetting to reply to list]

Dam, I was too slow. :(  Sorry, I've only been checking my email late at
night these days. :)

- Andreas

On 9/18/06, Sridhar Dhanapalan < sridhar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

 On Monday 18 September 2006 17:21, "Silvia Pfeiffer"
<silviapfeiffer1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> So, is anyone up for a irc debrief tonight?
> Any suggestions of better dates or locations if not?

Sorry, I couldn't reply sooner, Silvia. I've been at work and TAFE all day
I wasn't unable to check my mail until I got home a couple of minutes ago.
you're still interested in a debriefing over IRC (if you haven't done so
already), I'll be able to do it any time tomorrow after 6pm.

Sridhar Dhanapalan
  {GnuPG/OpenPGP: http://www.dhanapalan.com/yama.asc
   0x049D38B4 : A7A9 8A02 78CB AB1B FCE4 EEC6 2DD9 249B 049D 38B4}

"We'll do as you suggest and go with Linux. I've always liked that character
from Peanuts." - The Boss, "Dilbert"

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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 17 21:44:18 2006

Sep 17 21:44:18 *	Now talking on #sfd-av
Sep 17 21:44:18 *	brown.freenode.net sets mode +n #sfd-av
Sep 17 21:44:18 *	brown.freenode.net sets mode +s #sfd-av
Sep 18 18:10:02 *	syncman0x (n=syncman0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #sfd-av
Sep 18 18:15:15 <syncman0x>	Hi ginger, I'm working on ?id=experiences.
Sep 18 18:16:08 <ginger>	cool :)
Sep 18 18:35:18 <syncman0x>	done
Sep 18 18:36:35 <syncman0x>	Silvia, did you get around to previewing the Q&A sessions on those discs?
Sep 18 18:38:39 <syncman0x>	Senator Kate Lindsay and onward in particular
Sep 18 18:39:11 <syncman0x>	I'd like to know if the question talkers were as audible as they were on the headset.
Sep 18 18:44:10 <ginger>	the first two videos worked well
Sep 18 18:44:31 <ginger>	I'm afraid thought that the senator recording probably didn't come out very well
Sep 18 18:44:39 <ginger>	when I tried to finalize that disk, I had an error
Sep 18 18:45:00 <ginger>	and subsequently the DVD recorder didn't recognize any data on that disk any more
Sep 18 18:45:11 <ginger>	so, I might have to get back to the DV recordings for that
Sep 18 18:45:15 <ginger>	what a bummer!:(
Sep 18 18:49:03 <syncman0x>	Certain types of burners may be able to work around that
Sep 18 18:50:22 <syncman0x>	Does that recorder create a UDF 1.02 file system?
Sep 18 19:02:33 <ginger>	honestly: I do not know
Sep 18 19:04:50 <ginger>	are you ok to hang around till a 9pm meeting?
Sep 18 19:06:00 <syncman0x>	I can do that
Sep 18 19:06:13 <syncman0x>	from 9 onward or till 9?
Sep 18 19:40:35 *	ctd_ (i=ctd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #sfd-av
Sep 18 20:01:00 *	shans_home (n=shans@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #sfd-av
Sep 18 20:18:57 <syncman0x>	Ginger will be in at 9pm.
Sep 18 20:25:29 <ginger>	from 9 onwards
Sep 18 20:26:17 *	ginger has changed the topic to: 9pm SFD Debrief
Sep 18 21:02:12 *	syncman0x is Andrew Sinclair, lead camera operator.
Sep 18 21:04:22 <ginger>	hi Andrew, Chris, Shane :)
Sep 18 21:05:20 <shans_home>	heya
Sep 18 21:05:46 <syncman0x>	watching law and order
Sep 18 21:05:52 <ginger>	should we just discuss amongst ourselves?
Sep 18 21:05:58 <ginger>	I'm not sure who else would come
Sep 18 21:06:12 <shans_home>	OK
Sep 18 21:06:14 <shans_home>	should be fine
Sep 18 21:06:24 <shans_home>	if others come they can join in
Sep 18 21:06:41 <ginger>	ok, cool
Sep 18 21:07:09 <ginger>	Andrew, would you like to share your experiences first?
Sep 18 21:07:19 <syncman0x>	ok
Sep 18 21:07:43 <syncman0x>	Chris, Shane, i've edited ?id=experiences
Sep 18 21:09:09 <ginger>	syncman0x: looks good
Sep 18 21:09:45 <shans_home>	syncman0x:  awesome, nice information
Sep 18 21:09:56 <ginger>	I have checked the recordings of audience questions and with your manual control they came out really well
Sep 18 21:09:59 <ginger>	that was a great idea
Sep 18 21:10:08 <syncman0x>	I thought so.
Sep 18 21:10:34 <syncman0x>	I want that wireless mic :)
Sep 18 21:10:48 <shans_home>	heh :)
Sep 18 21:10:49 <ginger>	yeah, it worked really well
Sep 18 21:11:20 <ginger>	I don't think recording on DV when the DVD switches off as intermediary solution will work though
Sep 18 21:11:23 <shans_home>	ginger:  probably we don't want to do that for LCA though - having 2 cameras and cutting between them (manually) would work OK but be a lot of work
Sep 18 21:11:41 <shans_home>	(for questions, not for DV taping)
Sep 18 21:14:05 <ginger>	I haven't checked all the video material yet, but I think I'll take either the one from the DVD or the one from the backup DV
Sep 18 21:14:26 <ginger>	sound and picture quality will be too different to edit them together easily
Sep 18 21:14:40 <ginger>	so, where the DVD worked, it was awesome
Sep 18 21:14:59 <ginger>	do we think though that the DVD recording setup is actually workable at LCA?
Sep 18 21:15:32 <shans_home>	how many of the talks did we get?
Sep 18 21:15:36 <shans_home>	what's the quality like?
Sep 18 21:15:41 <shans_home>	how does it compare to DV?
Sep 18 21:15:50 <ginger>	http://gingertech.dyndns.org/SFD/doku.php?id=videos_from_sfd
Sep 18 21:15:58 <ginger>	I don't know the answers yet
Sep 18 21:16:04 <ginger>	haven't had enough time for all this work
Sep 18 21:16:19 <ginger>	there are 6 DVDs, 5 DV tapes and 2 mini-DVs to edit
Sep 18 21:16:37 <ginger>	I've by now finalized all the DVDs and mini-DVs so they should be readable by a computer
Sep 18 21:17:04 <ginger>	the one DVD with the talk by the minister had an error during finalizing
Sep 18 21:17:11 <ginger>	so I fear we may have lost that
Sep 18 21:17:20 <ginger>	which covers all the talks from the minister to the end
Sep 18 21:18:01 *	syncman0x was a bit distracted
Sep 18 21:18:46 <shans_home>	ginger:  that's really good quality
Sep 18 21:18:54 <ginger>	yup :)
Sep 18 21:19:06 <shans_home>	I suspect better than we'll get from DV
Sep 18 21:19:09 <ginger>	thank Andrew for it - he made sure it all worked well :)
Sep 18 21:19:12 <shans_home>	or similar at least
Sep 18 21:19:21 <ginger>	yes, absolutely comparable
Sep 18 21:19:29 <shans_home>	so why would we not go with DVD
Sep 18 21:19:32 <shans_home>	?
Sep 18 21:19:36 <ginger>	because of the timing issue
Sep 18 21:19:48 <shans_home>	DV has a much worse timing issue, surely?
Sep 18 21:20:08 <shans_home>	either (1) we go with DVD and make sure that the room controllers check with the recording people before introducing the speaker
Sep 18 21:20:12 <syncman0x>	DV worse? where have you been? :)
Sep 18 21:20:15 <ginger>	no, you just stop the DV recording, take out the tape, put in a new one, hit record and you're set
Sep 18 21:20:20 <ginger>	no more than 1 minute
Sep 18 21:20:27 <ginger>	changing DVDs takes a lot longer
Sep 18 21:20:38 <shans_home>	or (2) we go with DV and give up any idea of publishing anything to the net before at least 2 weeks after the conference ends
Sep 18 21:20:44 <shans_home>	ah, different timing issues then
Sep 18 21:21:15 <shans_home>	I think that having to wait for the DVD to be ready is a lesser issue than having to copy the DV tape off the camera in real time
Sep 18 21:21:18 <ginger>	stopping a DVD takes about 1 min, loading a new DVD takes about 3 minutes
Sep 18 21:21:34 <ginger>	and then you are not even finalized with the DVD which takes another 2 min
Sep 18 21:21:40 <shans_home>	again, I think that's easy to factor in if we know it
Sep 18 21:21:51 <shans_home>	and we can finalise on a player that's at the transcode/upload station
Sep 18 21:21:58 <ginger>	actually: I read in the handbook that if we pre-format the disks, they only take about 20 sec to load
Sep 18 21:22:17 <shans_home>	right, so we're down to 80 seconds
Sep 18 21:22:37 <ginger>	that sounds do-able
Sep 18 21:22:46 <shans_home>	yeah, and we have a _major_ benefit
Sep 18 21:22:54 <shans_home>	(not having to do transcoding after the conference)
Sep 18 21:22:55 <ginger>	I think the DVD recording plus DV backup worked really well
Sep 18 21:23:01 <shans_home>	yeah, agreed
Sep 18 21:23:05 <ginger>	(judging from experience so far)
Sep 18 21:23:21 <ginger>	post-processing the DVD is lots easier, though also time-consuming
Sep 18 21:23:48 <ginger>	and ffmpeg2theora takes start and end parameters, so you can use mplayer to determine the cut points and ffmpeg2thera to transcode
Sep 18 21:23:53 <ginger>	that worked really well
Sep 18 21:24:17 <shans_home>	excellent
Sep 18 21:24:24 <ginger>	one person can just sit down and note the cut points
Sep 18 21:24:27 <ginger>	the rest is automatic
Sep 18 21:24:58 *	TheMuso (n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso) has joined #sfd-av
Sep 18 21:25:06 <ginger>	hi Luke
Sep 18 21:25:14 <TheMuso>	Hey all.
Sep 18 21:25:19 <shans_home>	hihi
Sep 18 21:25:38 <ginger>	Luke will help with LCA and thus hearing our experiences will be good :)
Sep 18 21:25:56 <shans_home>	cool :)
Sep 18 21:26:10 <ginger>	Andrew: Luke has lots of knowledge in audio and can help us all there
Sep 18 21:26:23 <TheMuso>	ginger: has been telling me a few things about the audio from saturday.
Sep 18 21:26:48 <ginger>	ok, just trying to get our experiences together
Sep 18 21:27:10 <ginger>	Andrew/syncman0x: do you have anything else that bugged you on Saturday?
Sep 18 21:27:36 <syncman0x>	Yes, when previewing:
Sep 18 21:27:36 <ginger>	apart from the fact that we weren't able to get access to the room microphone and had to move in the middle of the day ;)
Sep 18 21:27:38 *	TheMuso is now subscribed to avhelpers
Sep 18 21:27:43 <syncman0x>	I had only one 10m lead \
Sep 18 21:27:46 <ginger>	cool
Sep 18 21:27:56 <ginger>	what do you mean?
Sep 18 21:27:57 <syncman0x>	so I could only preview video or audio at one time
Sep 18 21:28:13 <ginger>	oh, when you used the projector to preview the recordings!
Sep 18 21:28:22 <TheMuso>	Were the mics plugged into the cameras directly, or were they being put together elsewhere?
Sep 18 21:28:26 <ginger>	do you think taking a TV along and hooking that up would help?
Sep 18 21:28:57 <ginger>	TheMuso: http://gingertech.dyndns.org/SFD/doku.php?id=experiences
Sep 18 21:28:59 <syncman0x>	TheMuso: We had an XLR to camera mic unit under the camera and on the tripod
Sep 18 21:29:20 <TheMuso>	Riiiight.
Sep 18 21:29:36 <ginger>	it worked really well :)
Sep 18 21:29:41 <syncman0x>	ginger: a small monitor with s-video would help
Sep 18 21:29:49 <shans_home>	ginger:  do you want to try and tape slug on friday week?
Sep 18 21:29:54 <syncman0x>	failing that, the projekkies are ok.
Sep 18 21:29:54 <shans_home>	with a TV?
Sep 18 21:29:56 <ginger>	yes, I think we should
Sep 18 21:30:06 <TheMuso>	ginger: Well thats ok. My experience with such conversion hasn't always been good./
Sep 18 21:30:29 <ginger>	well, if I had a tiny TV or monitor, I would
Sep 18 21:30:40 <TheMuso>	Not the conversion itself, but using an adapter, rather than a proper mixer.
Sep 18 21:31:28 <shans_home>	ginger:  do you know if I can grab one from CSIRO somewhere?
Sep 18 21:31:28 <ginger>	there is a restricted mixing possibility on the XLR
Sep 18 21:31:48 <ginger>	shans_home: I haven't seen spare small TVs at CSIRO
Sep 18 21:31:52 <TheMuso>	What do you mean by restricted mixing?
Sep 18 21:32:06 <ginger>	woudl a portable DVD player work, actually?
Sep 18 21:32:20 <shans_home>	ginger:  dunno, do they have AV in?
Sep 18 21:32:28 <ginger>	TheMuso: it had 2 inputs and you could control their loudness
Sep 18 21:32:38 <TheMuso>	Right.
Sep 18 21:32:40 <ginger>	shans_home: dunno - let me check
Sep 18 21:33:04 <ginger>	shans_home: I think we have the recording under control
Sep 18 21:33:11 <ginger>	what do you think about the streaming?
Sep 18 21:33:57 <shans_home>	hmm, there was a major issue with the box doing the scan converting
Sep 18 21:34:07 <shans_home>	not the actual scan converter, but the PC it was attached to
Sep 18 21:34:42 <shans_home>	so we need to make sure that the teams that set up the streaming systems are given access to the scan converters well before LCA
Sep 18 21:34:47 <shans_home>	so they can do proper testing
Sep 18 21:35:11 <shans_home>	apart from that, John actually had video streaming running well by about halfway through the first talk
Sep 18 21:35:20 <ginger>	looks like some portable DVD players do have input ports! :)
Sep 18 21:35:29 <ginger>	I wanted to buy one for a while :)
Sep 18 21:35:44 <shans_home>	hmm
Sep 18 21:36:13 <ginger>	shans_home: if between you and john you can organise the streaming and the networking, I think that would work out well?
Sep 18 21:37:12 <shans_home>	yeah, I'd say so
Sep 18 21:37:17 <shans_home>	but john will be very busy
Sep 18 21:37:24 <shans_home>	so I'd like to have some other people help too :)
Sep 18 21:37:51 <TheMuso>	I can help with networking if you like.
Sep 18 21:38:03 <shans_home>	that could be cool :)
Sep 18 21:38:04 <TheMuso>	No expert, but know enough to get things up and running.
Sep 18 21:38:16 <shans_home>	actual networking is what John's team has to do
Sep 18 21:38:22 <ginger>	I'd like to have each one of us focus on one thing only, actually
Sep 18 21:38:30 <shans_home>	ginger:  Ok
Sep 18 21:38:34 <TheMuso>	ginger: Fair enough.
Sep 18 21:38:39 <ginger>	yeah, I thought ctd could do the streaming with you, shans
Sep 18 21:38:41 <shans_home>	btw, http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/450e85e3055803f6273fc0a87f9c06c0/Product/View/L5863
Sep 18 21:38:45 <shans_home>	ginger:  cool
Sep 18 21:38:47 <ginger>	then Andrew and Luke the audio
Sep 18 21:39:02 <shans_home>	that accepts input from 2 cameras, and is wireless
Sep 18 21:39:10 <ginger>	or Andrew helps me with the recording setup
Sep 18 21:39:56 <ginger>	shans_home: that looks awesome!
Sep 18 21:40:06 <shans_home>	:)
Sep 18 21:40:08 <ginger>	I didn't even think about CCTV screens!
Sep 18 21:40:11 <shans_home>	my grandparents have one, they're really cool
Sep 18 21:40:59 <ginger>	that one includes the camera
Sep 18 21:41:10 <ginger>	we may be able to get one w/o camera even cheaper
Sep 18 21:41:24 <shans_home>	yeppers
Sep 18 21:41:31 <shans_home>	we just need to check the inputs
Sep 18 21:41:36 *	ginger nods
Sep 18 21:41:46 <ginger>	need to test it like all the other equipment
Sep 18 21:41:54 <syncman0x>	be sure that it uses a standard PAL feed.
Sep 18 21:42:05 <ginger>	actually: one of the big things on Sat was that we assumed some things
Sep 18 21:42:21 <ginger>	e.g. that the RW DVDs would not need finalizing to be readable in PCs
Sep 18 21:42:36 <shans_home>	(I thought you'd tested that...)
Sep 18 21:42:36 <TheMuso>	Any disc session needs to be closed afaik
Sep 18 21:42:54 <ginger>	yeah, sounds right
Sep 18 21:43:16 <ginger>	shans_home: care to share your experiences?
Sep 18 21:43:26 <shans_home>	from saturday?
Sep 18 21:43:30 <ginger>	ctd_: are you around at all?
Sep 18 21:43:34 <ginger>	yup
Sep 18 21:43:44 <shans_home>	OK, (1) we need a coordinator
Sep 18 21:43:54 <shans_home>	who is known to all volunteers
Sep 18 21:44:06 <shans_home>	and who doesn't actually touch the equipment, but simply passes out jobs
Sep 18 21:44:16 <shans_home>	ginger is probably a good choice for this
Sep 18 21:44:39 <shans_home>	the reason is so that when volunteers turn up they get put to work immediately and we don't lose any
Sep 18 21:44:40 <ginger>	but I think we should have two coordintors: one for recording, one for streaming
Sep 18 21:44:48 <shans_home>	that could work fine too
Sep 18 21:44:58 <ginger>	shans_home: yes, I tried doing that on Saturday :)
Sep 18 21:45:06 <shans_home>	ginger:  did it work well?
Sep 18 21:45:11 <ginger>	and it worked well for the recording I thought
Sep 18 21:45:28 <ginger>	as for the streaming team: you and john and peter were the only ones there, I think
Sep 18 21:45:36 <shans_home>	yeah
Sep 18 21:45:41 <TheMuso>	So are you going to be recording direct to disk only at LCA, or will you also be recording to mini-dv/DVD?
Sep 18 21:46:17 <shans_home>	that was the main thing
Sep 18 21:46:17 <ginger>	no direct-to-disk recording probably
Sep 18 21:46:22 <ginger>	that has never really worked before
Sep 18 21:46:29 <shans_home>	oh, and we need to test finalising on a different DVD recorder to recording
Sep 18 21:46:37 <ginger>	yeah, we do
Sep 18 21:46:49 <shans_home>	oh, and one more thing :)
Sep 18 21:47:08 <TheMuso>	ginger: SO no, no recording to tape/DVD for LCA?
Sep 18 21:47:10 <shans_home>	I didn't know we were moving rooms until I got back from lunch
Sep 18 21:47:12 *	ginger is taking notes as we speak
Sep 18 21:47:19 <shans_home>	some kind of communication device between us would be _awesome_
Sep 18 21:47:32 <shans_home>	so you could have rung / paged / contacted me and said "oy, come help move"
Sep 18 21:47:33 <shans_home>	:)
Sep 18 21:47:56 <ginger>	I think the seven team is already taking care of that :)
Sep 18 21:48:04 <syncman0x>	Use a headset so it doesn't make noise for the audience
Sep 18 21:48:05 <shans_home>	r0x0r
Sep 18 21:48:08 <ginger>	shans_home: johnf and I knew about it
Sep 18 21:48:18 <ginger>	and Andrew was there at the location to help move
Sep 18 21:48:23 *	syncman0x is distracted by Law and Order, SVU
Sep 18 21:48:26 <ginger>	so it was *somewhat* under control
Sep 18 21:48:39 <ginger>	though of course Pia only told me after I had already ordered my lunch
Sep 18 21:48:42 <shans_home>	ginger:  sure, but we have up to 6 locations to control, not one :)
Sep 18 21:48:50 <ginger>	I did not want to make everyone else have to rush their lunch like I did
Sep 18 21:48:52 <shans_home>	so communication will be critical
Sep 18 21:48:57 <ginger>	absoutely
Sep 18 21:49:02 <shans_home>	ginger:  that was very nice of you :)
Sep 18 21:49:49 <ginger>	:P
Sep 18 21:50:19 <ginger>	headset is a good idea
Sep 18 21:50:50 <shans_home>	yeppers
Sep 18 21:51:09 <ginger>	TheMuso: we will record directly to DVD and use DV as backup - that worked well at SFD
Sep 18 21:51:23 <ginger>	shans_home: what else was on your list?
Sep 18 21:51:26 <TheMuso>	Right.
Sep 18 21:51:40 <TheMuso>	That could get messy as far as audio is concerned for streaming at least.
Sep 18 21:51:51 <shans_home>	ginger:  just a minor point, more setup time next time! :)
Sep 18 21:52:00 <ginger>	ok, noted
Sep 18 21:52:12 <shans_home>	TheMuso:  we are going to have 2 seperate systems running in parallel
Sep 18 21:52:23 <shans_home>	one is concerned with recording to DVD, transcoding and publishing
Sep 18 21:52:30 <shans_home>	the other with live streaming
Sep 18 21:52:43 <ginger>	actually, three: add the DV recording as backup
Sep 18 21:52:44 <shans_home>	there is _no_ interaction between them - seperate cameras, seperate computers, etc.
Sep 18 21:52:49 <shans_home>	ginger:  ah, yes :)
Sep 18 21:52:51 <TheMuso>	Right.
Sep 18 21:53:06 <TheMuso>	Well that makes things a HELL of a lot easier.
Sep 18 21:53:12 <ginger>	but the DV recording is mainly a matter of manning the camera
Sep 18 21:53:23 <ginger>	TheMuso: exactly :)
Sep 18 21:53:39 <ginger>	and we can edit directly from DVD and publish in parallel to recording
Sep 18 21:53:50 <ginger>	that's the theory: but we need to fix the processes :)
Sep 18 21:53:58 <TheMuso>	We could easily have an audio setup that serves all recording setups, all with their own audio level control.
Sep 18 21:54:16 <ginger>	all wireless?
Sep 18 21:54:39 <ginger>	and in 4-5 rooms?
Sep 18 21:54:51 <ginger>	can such equipment be rented?
Sep 18 21:54:53 <TheMuso>	IMO wireless is too risky for something like distributing audio to several systems. Sure use wireless for the speaker's mics/audience, but cables from the wireless receivers to everywhere else.
Sep 18 21:55:08 <TheMuso>	Well I meant one audio system per room probably.
Sep 18 21:55:24 <TheMuso>	Or maybe I don't have a grip on the setup of all this.
Sep 18 21:55:26 <ginger>	yup :)
Sep 18 21:55:31 <ginger>	no, you do!
Sep 18 21:55:32 <TheMuso>	Will all streaming video/recording be going back to a central point?
Sep 18 21:55:56 <shans_home>	yes, after transcoding to low quality
Sep 18 21:55:56 <TheMuso>	For all rooms?
Sep 18 21:56:00 <shans_home>	yeaj
Sep 18 21:56:02 <ginger>	we want as little interdependence as possible
Sep 18 21:56:08 <TheMuso>	ORight.
Sep 18 21:56:14 <ginger>	thus the teams in the different rooms should be independent, too
Sep 18 21:56:18 <TheMuso>	Yep.
Sep 18 21:56:30 <ginger>	the streaming will need to be centrally relayed though
Sep 18 21:56:44 <ginger>	but the editing and publishing can all be done decentralized
Sep 18 21:56:50 <shans_home>	TheMuso:  for streaming, we'll have DV recorder -> transcoder box -> central streaming
Sep 18 21:56:54 <ginger>	and be put on a common Web server
Sep 18 21:57:01 <shans_home>	and scan converter -> transcoder box -> central streaming
Sep 18 21:57:12 <TheMuso>	Right.
Sep 18 21:57:23 <TheMuso>	Where does everybody think the best point to bring the audio into the setup would be?
Sep 18 21:57:24 <ctd_>	will we be encoding the scan converter + dv feed streams on the same box?
Sep 18 21:57:36 <ginger>	then central streaming -> togra
Sep 18 21:57:39 <shans_home>	ctd_: no, don't think so
Sep 18 21:57:44 <shans_home>	ginger:  OATH!
Sep 18 21:57:53 <ginger>	and central streaming -> international reflector
Sep 18 21:57:55 <ctd_>	why not?
Sep 18 21:58:33 <shans_home>	ctd_:  CPU cost?
Sep 18 21:58:33 <ginger>	ctd_: we won't record the dv feeds through flumotion - it't not giving enough quality and creates too much interdependance
Sep 18 21:59:13 <ginger>	ah! sorry, misunderstood :)
Sep 18 21:59:25 <ctd_>	depends on the hardware we have I suppose
Sep 18 21:59:40 <ginger>	also on the location of the two
Sep 18 21:59:47 <ctd_>	ok
Sep 18 22:00:03 <ginger>	if the scan converters are at the front of the theatre and the dv camera at the back, it makes sense to use 2 different computers
Sep 18 22:00:19 <TheMuso>	What are scan convertors and what are they for?
Sep 18 22:00:30 *	yama (n=yama@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #sfd-av
Sep 18 22:00:37 <yama>	hi everybody!
Sep 18 22:00:48 <ctd_>	TheMuso: they take the output of the laptop's vga out
Sep 18 22:00:50 <ginger>	hi Sridhar!
Sep 18 22:01:05 <TheMuso>	ctd_: Ah right. For slides etc I guess.
Sep 18 22:01:09 <ctd_>	TheMuso: converts them to composite out, and then we feed it to a flumotion streamer
Sep 18 22:01:13 <ginger>	yeah, and demos
Sep 18 22:01:19 <TheMuso>	Right.
Sep 18 22:01:53 <ginger>	it would be cool if we could record the scan converter output to disk
Sep 18 22:01:59 <ginger>	in a half sensible way
Sep 18 22:02:19 <ginger>	then we could give people eventually 2 streams to watch - not just the recorded one
Sep 18 22:02:27 <TheMuso>	hmm. Is there likely to be any audio with any demos?
Sep 18 22:02:43 <TheMuso>	Like from the computer, and not the person speaking?
Sep 18 22:02:46 <shans_home>	ginger:  ah yeah, that's right
Sep 18 22:02:49 <shans_home>	hmm, diagram time :)
Sep 18 22:03:03 <ginger>	well, if it comes through the main microphone to the people, it will be on the video recording
Sep 18 22:03:15 <TheMuso>	But it might not.
Sep 18 22:03:19 <TheMuso>	For example, a multi-media demo.
Sep 18 22:03:32 <TheMuso>	We can't expect them to put the microphone up to some tinny laptop speakers.
Sep 18 22:03:40 <ginger>	people do :)
Sep 18 22:03:54 <TheMuso>	Then all I can say is eeeew.
Sep 18 22:03:54 <ctd_>	cringe luke, cringe!
Sep 18 22:04:04 <ginger>	actually: the SFD theatre had a VGA *and* a sound input for laptops
Sep 18 22:04:29 <TheMuso>	But it is getting an unaplified signal from the PA that could be the problem, if there was a similar setup.
Sep 18 22:04:46 <ginger>	there's always a speaker training at the start of LCA, so we can tell them about the scan converters and the audio
Sep 18 22:05:13 <ginger>	what do you mean by "similar setup"?
Sep 18 22:05:42 <TheMuso>	Take UTS for example. They have audio input for their PA as well as video input. There is no way to get the output from that input other than through the speakers.
Sep 18 22:06:14 <ginger>	so, if we get access to the PA, we're safe, but if not, we have a problem
Sep 18 22:06:16 <TheMuso>	As far as I know of anyway
Sep 18 22:06:36 <TheMuso>	Acces to the PA in the form of an output lead with an unamplified signal, yes.
Sep 18 22:07:01 <ginger>	well, we need to inspect the rooms and find out
Sep 18 22:07:06 <TheMuso>	Yeah.
Sep 18 22:07:24 <ginger>	yama: what were your experiences from Saturday? care to share the ups and downs?
Sep 18 22:08:34 <yama>	I had a thought today. We were recording to DVD+R (not DVD-R) discs?
Sep 18 22:08:40 <TheMuso>	ginger: The only other problem that we may have, is if we are using the PA mic in the room, and there is an input lead for audio from people's laptops, the output may have to be switched in some form between the input lead and the mic, so it may not be possible to have both at the same time.
Sep 18 22:08:44 <yama>	maybe the laptop I was using couldn't read +R
Sep 18 22:08:52 <syncman0x>	FYI: UNSW had tape recorders for their PA. Get audio from their 6.5mm headphone jacks.
Sep 18 22:09:16 <TheMuso>	syncman0x: Could we possibly get that before the tape recorder
Sep 18 22:09:34 <TheMuso>	Tape player's output post recorder can be nasty, especially with tape mechanics noise, as well as hiss.
Sep 18 22:10:24 <syncman0x>	The headphone out jack should relay input independantly of the tape recorder
Sep 18 22:10:53 <TheMuso>	What about a line out connection?
Sep 18 22:11:19 <syncman0x>	I did not see that, perhaps it is on the back of the unit where it is not accessable.
Sep 18 22:11:54 <TheMuso>	syncman0x: Yes, but there is a chance that the output will still pick up tape machine noise. We also might have to have a tape or something in there to have it turned on to pass audio.
Sep 18 22:11:54 <syncman0x>	I forgot to photograph the thing.
Sep 18 22:12:24 <TheMuso>	Is it possible to pull the input lead out of the tape recorder itself?
Sep 18 22:12:39 <syncman0x>	The thing is embedded into the wall. Good luck.
Sep 18 22:12:44 <TheMuso>	crap!!
Sep 18 22:13:11 <TheMuso>	Well we'll have to test those outputs to see what quality they give.
Sep 18 22:13:51 <shans_home>	yama:  they were DVD-R/W
Sep 18 22:14:29 <yama>	oh. Did we figure out if it was just a finalisation issue? Are the legible at all?
Sep 18 22:14:42 <yama>	s/the/they/
Sep 18 22:16:22 <shans_home>	it was finalisation, yeah
Sep 18 22:16:28 <syncman0x>	at LCA we are videoing how many rooms?
Sep 18 22:16:30 <shans_home>	and yes, they're legible :)
Sep 18 22:16:35 <shans_home>	syncman0x:  4 or 5
Sep 18 22:16:56 <syncman0x>	Is each one of those going to be done with a DVD recorder?
Sep 18 22:16:58 <shans_home>	yama:  http://gingertech.dyndns.org/SFD/doku.php?id=videos_from_sfd
Sep 18 22:17:01 <shans_home>	(off DVD)
Sep 18 22:17:12 <shans_home>	anyway, I'm going to have to head off now, it's past my bed time :)
Sep 18 22:17:14 <shans_home>	night all
Sep 18 22:17:16 <syncman0x>	night
Sep 18 22:17:42 <yama>	g'night
Sep 18 22:18:03 <yama>	I'll have to take a look at those videos. I'm glad we got something out of them
Sep 18 22:18:18 <ginger>	brb: have to get Ben to bed...
Sep 18 22:25:37 <syncman0x>	Need Ubuntu/Firefox compatible JRE plugin; URL anyone?
Sep 18 22:27:08 <yama>	it requires java, does it?
Sep 18 22:27:15 <yama>	I was wondering why it wasn't working
Sep 18 22:27:23 *	yama turns java off usually
Sep 18 22:30:48 <ginger>	yup needs java
Sep 18 22:31:01 <ginger>	yup, it all worked once the DVDs were finalized
Sep 18 22:31:10 <ginger>	ok, I have to get to bed now, too
Sep 18 22:31:27 <ginger>	if anyone has more feedback, please edit it into http://gingertech.dyndns.org/SFD/doku.php?id=experiences
Sep 18 22:31:46 <ginger>	thanks everyone for your help and this discussion!
Sep 18 22:31:51 <TheMuso>	np
Sep 18 22:32:13 <yama>	sure
Sep 18 22:32:51 <yama>	sorry I couldn't join the conversation earlier, but I'm glad I at least caught the tail end!
Sep 18 22:33:07 <ginger>	I can post the log :)
Sep 18 22:33:41 <ginger>	oh, btw: would anybody be interested to play with the DVD recording during the next SLUG?
Sep 18 22:33:57 <ginger>	I'm happy to bring it along and let more people gain experience
Sep 18 22:36:05 <syncman0x>	I'll bring a box
Sep 18 22:36:16 <syncman0x>	more like a rectangle
Sep 18 22:37:02 <yama>	ginger: I wouldn't mind taking a gander
Sep 18 22:37:26 <ginger>	cool!
Sep 18 22:37:41 <syncman0x>	night everyone
Sep 18 22:37:45 <ginger>	I'll bring it along for you :)
Sep 18 22:37:48 <ginger>	night syncman0x
Sep 18 22:38:07 <TheMuso>	Night syncman0x 
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